“Turbo Folk Not Dead” – an Interview with Rambo Amadeus

An Interview with Rambo Amadeus

Rambo Amadeus: Let’s turn on English. But beware, my English is not Oxford.

Robert Rigney: I wanted to ask you about turbo-folk. You have no doubt been asked this question a million times. For starters, you came out with a song called “Turbo-folk”.

Rambo Amadeus: That was in 1988 when I made my first album, I put “Turbo Folk” on the cover.  I wanted to explain the kind of genre that I was working in. I was experimenting with some nasal, Middle Eastern singing and sequencers. I called it “turbo-folk”. I didn’t expect that my colleagues from folk music would adore it like they did, and imitate it over the course of the next twenty years. But that’s cool.

Robert Rigney: Is it true that the inspiration actually came from hearing Bhangra music from east-London?

Rambo Amadeus: Well, this also influenced me. Bhangra is the first generation of Pakistani guys, who were born in London and mixed their original Pakistani culture with all those rhythm machines and sequencers and synthesizers. Yes, I heard it. But I heard it after I made my first album. To be honest, some inspiration came from Holger Czukay, Der Osten ist Rot. Later he became a member of that band Can. Before he joined Can, he came out with some solo album, which he called Der Osten ist Rot. He came from Hungary.

Robert Rigney: So Holger Czukay was part of the inspiration for “Turbo Folk”?

Rambo Amadeus: Yes, he was part of the inspiration. And also Brian Eno and David Byrne’s “The Jezebel Spirit” in My Spirit in the Bush of Ghosts. Another important album was Trout Masque Replica. And that’s it. 

Robert Rigney: The term “turbo-folk” has in the time being gone around the world as probably Serbia’s most famous label. Is turbo-folk still around or has it been entirely subsumed by Western pop?

Rambo Amadeus: Actually, turbo-folk is a social phenomenon. My definition of turbo-folk is, “incompetent use of technology.” That is turbo-folk. When technology outpaces competency.  Turbo-folk is not just a Serbian phenomenon, but it exists all over the Balkans. You’ve got very strong turbo-folk authors from Bosnia, from Kosovo, from Macedonia. I suggest look up an excellent turbo-folk guy, his name is Cita. Cita is excellent. He is the finest guy. And you can also find turbo-folk in its new version, or new genre in Coca-Cola Bend.

Robert Rigney: Gypsy guys, presumably.

Rambo Amadeus: They come from Shutka. Shutka is a Roma town in Skopje. And also Facebook Bend from  Shutka as well. It’s a completely new genre. The bottom line is turbo-folk is not only music. And turbo-folk is not originally from Serbia. It comes from a region that stretches from Kyrgyzstan to Vienna. In that whole region you’ve got turbo-folk.

You know, I’ve read a few stories that people have written about turbo-folk and most of them are making a big mistake. I know, because I dabbled in folk. But they usually say that turbo-folk was some kind of musical style that originated during the time of growing nationalism.

Robert Rigney: It’s bullshit, I know.

Rambo Amadeus: This is complete bullshit! You’ve got a few parallel phenomena. One was the rising of nationalism. Another was the liberalization of the radio stations and the media. Turbo-folk is a consequence of capitalism. When we got capitalism, we got private media, and in the private media there were no editors, or educated guys from musical academies, who had studied the history of art and knew the history of music. Rather, you had  owners, who were businessmen and who thought it was cool to run a station. They played what they liked to hear, which meant all that folk, which was suddenly flooding the radio and tv.

Robert Rigney: But it had nothing to do with nationalism.

Rambo Amadeus: You’ve got in turbo-folk zero songs with national lyrics. But you had plain old folk with that. There was nothing in nationalism calling for a “new sound”.

Robert Rigney: How did this misconception about turbo-folk originate, particularly among journalists from the West?

Rambo Amadeus: Well, ask them. I don’t know. It is totally surprising to me. It is some kind of myth generated by people who are not competent. They wanted to connect something which has no connection. 

Robert Rigney: The only Serbian nationalist singer I know is this guy Baja Mali Knindža.

Rambo Amadeus: Yes, but he is folk, not turbo-folk. And then there are these guys Thompson. But that is not turbo-folk. It is heavy metal. 

Robert Šoko: Rambo, am I right in saying that in the time being we have had thirty years of this Balkan hype in Europe and the world. And me, as one of the protagonists, I would often be asked, “Who is responsible for this? Who is to be blamed?” And I would refer to Goran Bregović, Emir Kusturica and Fanfare Ciocarlia. 

But from what I can recall, as a young DJ back in the day, in the nineties in Berlin, I would play your tracks from your Hoćemo Gusle album, which was sort of an epic album, where you used all sorts of elements of ethnic music, integrated with hip-hop in a Montenegrin style. 

And so I tell people, we must never forget that what Rambo was doing, he was doing already in the eighties – 1987, 1988 – when it was all starting to come out. Am I correct in my interpretation of events?

Rambo Amadeus (skirting the issue): Well, all this eclectic style, as you know, mixing sounds, mixing World Music – you can’t say that is all turbo-folk. How to distinguish some eclectic mixing of folk music with electronics. Obviously Brian Eno and David Byrne are not turbo-folk, but they mix it; they mix the singing from radio Kabul and the Roland TR 05 rhythm machine.

Actually, you need to find the šund – the trash – in the lyrics. The lyrics have to be trashy. There also has to be a kind of horror vacui. One of the hallmarks of turbo-folk is that you can’t hear any empty space. It’s like full on, non-stop; full of a lot of sounds. It consists of virtuosity and eclecticism in the absence of good taste. It’s a kind of conglomeration. 

Robert Rigney: 

In talking with folk producer Marko J. Kon, he said that rock and punk in ex-Yugoslavia was the product of the Communist apparatus, and, moreover that the real rock’n’rollers – the ones who represented the real rock’n’roll lifestyle in Serbia were the folk guys, the narodnjaci. Guys like Mile Kitić.

Rambo Amadeus: No. I think he is mixing up cocaine with rock’n’roll. Obviously, he thinks that the guys who do cocaine or some kind of rock stars. That is, I think not true. I think that rock, in particular early rock’n’roll is connected with weed. But pop, turbo-folk and folk are connected with cocaine. I think Marko is wrong there. He got mixed up there. 

But if we are analyzing the rebellious manners that the big rock stars in the world have, okay, I have to mention Aca Lukas. He’s a guy who really demonstrates that subversive behavior that big rock stars have. Like Jim Morrison. But without the ideology. Just the behavior without anything backing it up. There’s a big difference there. 

Robert Šoko: I read in Nele Karajlić’s latest book (Solunska 28 / part 3) where he is making an allusion to a subject that has never been publicly discussed (although the have been some rumors coursing around). He is claiming that a lot of big bands were directly supported, if not completely „created“ by the secret service of the Socialist party. The reason behind this subvention apparently, was on the one hand, to present Yugoslavia as a modern European country keeping it up with the western world. Secondly, it was to gain better control over the youth, artists and anyone else who could eventually question the doings of the Communist party; basically, in order to gain the upper hand of public dissent. Would something like that have been possible at all? He is also claiming that a lot of big bands were support by the secret service of the Socialist party. 

Rambo Amadeus: No, no. That is a big bullshit.

Robert Šoko: This is what I also, thought. Because there are voices saying that this is true. 

Rambo Amadeus: It is a really big bullshit. Of course Bijelo Dugme was hugely popular. Maybe the  government of Yugoslavia wanted to harness the popularity of Bijelo Dugme. They invited them to play for Tito. But it is nonsense. It is not possible to make that good music and to invent something like Bijelo Dugme in a police office.

Robert Rigney: Marko J Kon also said that while we have in the West Club 27 – rock’n’rollers who died  young as the result of substance abuse, in Serbia big music stars only started delving into drugs late in their careers. If in America rock’n’rollers were victims of “too much too soon”, the turbo stars of Serbia suffered from “too much too late”. Does this resonate with you?

Rambo Amadeus: Well, I don’t think this was that important, that kind of analysis. We’ve got the band Ekaterina Velika. That musician from Šarlo Akrobata, the drummer, they died from heroin. The whole band of Ekaterina Velika died from heroin. I rather connect it to the resistance to the war. You had Jim Morrison and that whole hippy movement against the Vietnam war and taking drugs as protest to remain underground and against the mainstream. And I think the same thing held true with these bands from Yugoslavia. They died from heroin which was the result of a big sorrow which itself was the result of the whole country falling apart. You can also say the same for Dino Dvornik. He was a huge Yugoslavian pop star. He died from methadone pills. If you are alone with methadone you will die from heart ailment. 

Robert Rigney: Another, lighter subject: Belgrade. The city has changed a lot in the last ten years. There have been a lot of construction projects, a lot of new activity. The Belgrade Waterfront. It’s a completely different city than it was ten years ago. 

Rambo Amadeus: Well, I think everything started when ex-New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani came to see Belgrade. He was being taken around by boat with Aleksandar Vučić and guys and evidently he had asked: “Why don’t you build here on the water? You should do it.” And from that moment our society has become americanized in a big way.  Profit has become almighty. 

Robert Rigney: Where is the money coming from to finance all of this?

Rambo Amadeus: Don’t ask me. I didn’t invest. 

Robert Rigney: What’s the Belgrade music scene like these days?

Rambo Amadeus: Turbo-folk is now mainstream. There are some interesting experimental things. Also Belgrade is a good jazz center. There are a lot of young people playing jazz. There are a lot of young jazz bands. They are playing in a lot of clubs. That is okay and that is cool. But it is far away from the mainstream. There are a few Gypsy style jazz bands. You have to check out Branko Bako Jovanović. He is a virtuoso Gypsy jazzer. Or Aca Nikolić Čergar and Šanjika, who is a Gypsy virtuoso guitar player. And then there is the band, Kal. They are an ex cathedra Gypsy band, an academic Gypsy band. Band leader Dragan Ristić is an educated guy.  And it is okay.

Robert Rigney: Are the famous splavs (river raft nightclubs) still an active scene?

Rambo Amadeusb: I don’t know. Whenever I go to the river I am going to sail. We’ve got six sailing clubs in Belgrade. When I am on the river it is just with the sailing club. Or if I am going to eat something at some of those fine riverside restaurants. When I say fine, I mean not so expensive. Cool, with domestic food at some cozy locales on the water. But I am too old for those turbo-folk splavovi.

Robert Šoko: What is the beauty of living in Belgrade?

Rambo Amadeus: Life on the rivers. You have 20,000 registered boats in Belgrade as well as a few thousand registered homes on the water. Jazz clubs and a few very cool theaters. 

Robert Šoko: And a lot of good-looking women. 

Rambo Amadeus: Yes, good-looking women. 

Robert Rigney: Well, Rambo, thanks for the interview.

Rambo Amadeus: Thank you.

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Copyrights © Robert Rigney & Robert Šoko | Interviewed  September 2024, Berlin

This interview is a part of our greater imagination aiming at completing a BalkanBeats